Hi, I'm Valerie Steele, Director and Chief Curator of the Museum at FIT, the most fashionable museum in New York City.

Welcome to our Fashion Culture podcast series, featuring lectures and conversations about fashion.

If you like what you hear, please share your thoughts on social media using the hashtag Fashion Culture.

Valerie Steele and it's Olivier Rustin from Balmain.

We'll just be in conversation and then afterwards we have the opportunity for you to ask questions.

So I'm going to start with the first question which is what was your childhood like?

Oh wow, I think it's the most complex question I ever had for an interview.

Thinking of Rihanna.

I think my childhood was pretty special.

I grew up in Bordeaux, in the south of France.

I come from an orphanage and I had an incredible family that adopted me at the age of around two years old.

My parents taught me so much values and incredible values, but definitely not fashion because they were really not into fashion, they were more into science.

But they taught me to believe in my dreams, whatever they were, you know, and let me be free of who I want to be.

So I grew up in Bordeaux.

My dream was to be a lawyer.

And so obviously it's really different than what I am now.

My father wanted me to be a lawyer too.

And I went to college, to high school, and at one point I was like, I just want to create.

do my passion as my work, you know, so that's what I did.

You went to Italy to start working in fashion at 17?

Correct.

I think around 17, almost 18, I moved to Italy because I wanted to work.

But I did a fashion school before.

So when did you first realize that you were interested in fashion?

And how did that manifest itself?

I think I always knew it.

The thing is that I think it's not about when do you really realize because I think when you have a passion in your heart you know from the beginning.

It's just that you need to understand do you want to do it?

Do you feel strong enough to feel that your passion can become your work?

When I was a kid I was dreaming superheroes in my room and I was like three, four, five years old until like maybe like 13 years old I was sketching.

I never realized that actually I was not sketching only superheroes.

I was basically sketching fashion.

And my mom one day, she told me, you always love sketching.

And I was like, yeah, it's true.

But you always love fashion without knowing.

So fascinating.

It's really amazing.

I remember when my son was little, I brought him into a classroom and I said, you can talk to the students about superhero costumes.

And he lectured to them and he'd say, next slide, next slide.

And he'd talk about what they were wearing.

So how did you become creative director of Balmain?

It was 2011.

You were 24 years old?

Correct.

So how did it lead up to that?

This is so amazing.

I mean, you were so, so young to get such a big position.

I sent my portfolio at that time I was working at Cavalli and I was like around 22 or 23 I sent my portfolio to Christophe de Carnard which was the creative director in 2010 at Barma and I become his right hand and He liked my work and for two years.

I was his right hand managing the studio and After two years, he left, and my shareholder, my president, was like, oh, this guy has something.

And I was like, me?

And he was like, yeah, yeah, yes, you can create collections.

We love your work.

We love your style.

We love what you do.

And so I became creative director at the age of 24.

That is so incredible.

What an amazing story.

Talk to us about how your career has evolved since then.

You've been now in this position for 11 years, which is really incredible because now you see them, they come and go so fast.

How did it evolve for you?

So now it's 15 years.

15 years, exactly.

This is the most interesting question because I'm almost in my 40s, it's been 15 years now, and obviously...

the one that I was when I created this H &M collection and the one that I am today is obviously different.

Different doesn't mean that you are changing completely because you stick to your DNA but you just evolve.

So I would say that my first years at Barman I was trying to be the best student.

My only fear was Imagine if a heel breaks on the catwalk or if a model is not coming and I'm losing an outfit.

So I think that was more like the beginning was more like being the perfect student.

And after you realize that there is no school that teaches you how to become a creative director.

You can be the best designer, you can know how to work on the twirl, being pattern maker, you can be a really great modelist, having a really sense of architecture and color.

But really the hardest part of this job is to become a creative director because you understand that your clothes are actually creating a world.

And what is the world that you want to talk about?

What is the message behind?

So let's say that I started trying to be the best student and after a couple of years I decided to become a creative director which means like what is the message, what is the topic, what is the strength that I have that is going to resonate and being different in fashion.

And after a couple of years I realized what was my message.

My message was in me but I was not ready to talk about.

Obviously in 2011 I was the first black designer in a French fashion luxury house and I knew that I wanted to push diversity, inclusivity.

Talking about pop culture because I was 24 and so obviously like everybody was like everything what is cool in fashion is what is vintage and I was like I just want to be the witness of my time.

I want to talk about what I love right now and I start to evolve and One woman that inspired me a lot was Rihanna.

She told me, be yourself because you will never regret.

And so at this point we built the Balmain army, which was like incredible people that actually were fighting to be free, to be who they want to be.

And that's how everything started.

Yes, the Balmain army was a really, really brilliant concept.

You've attracted so many young people who identified with you and with the message you were projecting.

And it was such an inclusive and powerful look that I think that was a crucial turning point probably for you, that concept.

It was because what I think was really hard for me, and you are all really young and bravo to you, but when I was young, it was not the same world than today.

When I was young, like fashion industry was teaching you to almost being older because it was like, you should love the 80s, you should love the 70s.

Don't talk about 2010, 2020.

Like it was really like a moment of my career where I was just like, I want to talk about what is now.

And what is now means talking about social media, talking about what's happening around the world.

And I think my fashion for me was like...

bringing messages that are deeper than just throwing fashion shows every six months.

Yes, and I mean I remember in one interview you talked about how when you were first appointed there was also you know so much old -school racism in the industry that people were like how can a black person be in charge of a French fashion house?

So much kind of xenophobia.

So true.

I mean if you start to look at the shows I would say even 15 years ago, you will see the difference between now and before.

And what is strong with fashion is that fashion forgets really fast everything.

But if you look at Vogue Runways, all those incredible websites, you will understand that 20 years ago, there is not so much inclusivity and diversity.

Like, I remember when it was my first show and I came out.

there was a sense of loneliness.

And I'm talking about 2011, so imagine if you go even deeper into this story.

So I'm just telling you, like, from 2011 until now, it's all about fighting to make a better world and making sure that the world that I went through, you're not going to go through.

Talk to us about the kind of people who were your inspirations and your muses, as it were.

I've always been inspired by music, with music, because to me music is democratizing and it's about listening to people, what they need, what they want, their feelings and their emotions.

Obviously Beyonce has always been part of my inspiration.

I would say the top model from the 90s when I did a campaign with Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer and Naomi, they inspired me so much.

so many incredible women came.

I remember my first Met Gala with her.

She was so scared because she was like, do you think fashion's gonna love me one day?

And I say, you're gonna be part of the books.

And that's what happened.

So I love women when they have strength and they're kind of creating a revolution more than an evolution.

Rihanna in 2013 when we did our campaign.

And I remember like if you look at some articles, some reviews, they were asking me, is hip -hop gonna be part of luxury one day?

Those questions were before.

Today you're not gonna have those questions.

But to tell you this story is not to just feel old and explain you what was before, but just to tell you like what we went through to make sure that today everything is normal.

Well, you were talking before about the differences between being a designer and being a creative director and I wonder how do you balance that those two halves of what you're doing?

This is the hardest question because a designer you sketch and it's all about the perfection that you show to the world your own perfection being a creative director is bringing messages authenticity and beyond the clothes and the accessories that you put on the runway, it's all about creating a world, a lifestyle, with strong messages.

When you're a creative director, you need to face the criticism, and now I could say the haters, your followers, it's a long shot.

But it's an interesting one because whatever you do in your life and whatever choice you make, you need to face criticism.

Always.

And it can hurt so much.

Talk about social media, because you've been really, really brilliant and so in advance of most designers in using social media to spread your message.

How did that happen?

Was that just a function of being a young person for whom social media was a natural form of communication?

It was definitely natural.

And at that time, I remember many people from my team, like PRs, like...

whoever they were like, social media is not luxury.

And my question was like, if you remember the 1960s, 70s, like all the books that we're going to read, it was all about like going to a store and buying in the store.

And I say, look, what happened to the internet?

People were like, oh my God, is it internet luxury?

And your e -com is usually your biggest store right now online.

So I'm like, social media is going to be the best way to communicate.

But at that time, I remember people were scared because it was about democratizing fashion.

And when you start to democratize fashion, you need to be ready to listen to youth and new generation telling you what's right and what's wrong.

Fashion was really scared.

So I started my social media really naturally and organically until that it became a success.

And at this point, it was not anymore a question.

It's really fascinating because a lot of people seem to act as though luxury is just...

fashion for the few and you were saying no no fashion can be for anyone fashion is not just about expensive clothes it's not just about clothes at all absolutely fashion luxury let's say it's obviously a high price point not everybody can have access but there is one thing that I always being that I would always disagree is when fashion doesn't allow you to dream Because the beauty of fashion is

to let anyone dream and anyone being part of a community that you want to build.

And that was my goal.

One of my favorite moments was my H &M collaboration for one reason, because I was creating a collection that was obviously really expensive because it's like high fashion.

But when I created H &M, I was like, oh wow, so people are actually excited about Balmain.

And at that time I was not even 30.

We are creating festivals, stadiums, where people could see my fashion and one day can afford it.

But with H &M, everybody could afford it.

And that was like a moment of my life where I was really, really proud.

You've done a lot of exciting ways of presenting fashion.

I remember there was something just a couple of years ago with a boat down the sand.

Can you tell them about that in case they don't remember that one?

It was another way of bringing fashion outside of the little box of a few people.

The boat was when there was COVID happening in the world.

And I was like, I think no one could actually be in a room.

So I was like, I just want to give some love to my city, which is Paris.

So we took a boat and we brought the incredible model.

They were walking, showing the story of the house from 1945 till my own collections.

I just, I wanted to share love.

I wanted to share my own passion.

And people were like clapping in the streets when no one could be in the same room like right now.

But people could actually join each other and celebrating a fashion moment, which was beautiful.

It was really a moment of, I was like, I want to spread love.

Back in 2020, we had those conversations.

Your people approached me.

We had conversations about...

Balmain, the House of Balmain, Pierre Balmain, and what your feelings were about that.

And you had such awareness and such interest in this person from so long ago who had founded the house.

Could you talk to them a little bit about that?

Because on the one hand, you were not about like, oh, fashion from the past.

But on the other hand, you really were fascinated by the heritage of this house and the way he had created it.

I've always been in love with history and with the past.

Because to create a better future, you need to understand your past, make it to the present to change the future.

You cannot change the future if you don't have the knowledge of the past.

And the House of Barman is one of the incredible stories that few people know.

The house has been built in 1945, right after the Second War, with nothing in Paris.

You don't have fabric, you don't have leather, you cannot even do a pair of shoes.

But Pierre Barman was so brave and resilient and audacious to make sure that he wanted to create his own brand.

Way before some other really famous brand, actually.

And what I love about Mr.

Pierre Barman is when I saw the silhouette that he created for a woman right after the Second War.

So there was the tension between the couture that Paris was known for and at the same time the really casual pieces that he could create for women that go to work right after the Second War.

So if I look at the archive, I was really obsessed and in love with all what he has done.

And I started to be inspired so much about the history of the house.

Again, because when you live a world with uncertainty, everybody is more reassured with the past.

So I think the strength that you can have is when you understand the past, still being the witness of your time and create that balance between those two topics and making sure that you're building the future.

When we had those conversations, I myself did a lot of research into Bauman's life and work because I didn't...

really know that much about it.

You'd hear about a few other designs, you'd hear about Dior and Balenciaga, and I was fascinated that he was friends with Gertrude Stein and invited her to his first fashion show and she brought her dog basket and then, you know, the clothes that he was showing there.

What was the style call that he was creating?

It was the new French style.

Yes.

I think there's really a common Point with me and between me and Mr.

Pierre Barman, he was obsessed with America.

He loved America.

You know Paris is really tough.

France is really tough.

And sometimes you need to leave your own country to come back and be more loved.

Pierre Barman understood that.

Because he was trying to break boundaries in a country and in a city where he was feeling that sometimes he was too conservative.

So he went to America.

with his friend Gersthrstein and spread his word which was the new French style.

So when he came back to Paris after being so much loved by America, France started to love him.

But he was just like, I did that before here and no one wanted to see me doing it.

And another thing that I love about Mr.

Pierre Barman, in the 1950s, for who is really curious about it, if you look on YouTube or whatever, he was speaking fluently English in the 1950s because he was in love of...

...globality, internationality.

He wanted to make sure that Pierre Barman would resonate to the world.

And he knew that his French style would never happen without being loved by the world.

outside of Paris.

I don't want to be traumatic, but I know people will wonder, how do you deal with the difficulties and traumas that you face over the course of your life?

I mean, everybody faces difficulties, but how have you overcome them?

It's like my shrink now.

Sorry, it's my psychoanalytic show.

I think all of us in this room going through trauma and tough moments in your life, there's no life without obstacle.

There's no life without moments that you're down, you know?

You just need to make sure that every time it's happening something really hard in your life, you get stronger and it becomes your strength.

I'm giving you a couple of examples.

I come from an orphanage, and I don't know where I come from.

I didn't know where I come from until a couple of years ago.

But this idea of not knowing where I came from made me want to be loved by everyone.

Because I didn't have the love of my own mother and my own dad, because I didn't know them, my biological parents.

So I think that's...

that can be seen as a weakness became my strength.

I was like, I just want to be loved by the world and I just want to spread my love to the world.

A couple of years ago, I got a really sad accident and I got fully burned, like fully, fully burned.

And I was scared because you know when you work in fashion, it's all about this kind of perfection, that kind of cliche.

But I realized a day after, like a couple of days after actually, that I was not leaving, I was surviving.

Because sometimes fashion, you realize that you are like in that train that goes really fast and you don't take time for yourself to really realize that you're a lucky person and that you should have a smile every day on your face.

And you know, when you get through whatever traumas, you just make them being, you just make them become your, not anymore your enemy, but your strength.

And you're like, actually, if it happened that to me, it's for a reason.

And I believe that all of you in this room, you went through so much.

Make sure that whatever you went through, you take it, you smile at it, and you're like, okay, I'm going to be a better version of myself now.

And nothing's going to put me down.

Actually, everything that tried to put me down is going to make you stronger.

It's very much like Nietzsche, yes.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Correct.

You made that wonderful movie, Wonder Boy, about searching for your parents.

How did that come about?

I mean, that's such a powerful story that you found out who they were and they were just kids, really.

Yeah.

Really children.

It was...

So when I started my documentary on Netflix, Wonder Boy, it was not about...

my origins or my story was about following me during fashion, my fashion season at Darman, like eight shows a year.

But the producer told me, and what about if you look for your origins?

And I'm going to be really transparent with you.

I was not ready for it.

But I was like, I want to do it.

Because if I have the chance to actually find my origins, going through a lot of emotions, and sharing with the world, it can help the next generation to think, ah, okay, if you made it, I can do it.

That's the reason why I did Wonder Boy.

But I didn't even know, I knew the beginning, but I would never know the end.

I discovered my mother, she was really young.

She was 13 years old when she got pregnant and 14 when she actually had that baby, which was me.

in the circumstances that were, I'm sure, really awful for her.

But again, that weakness makes you stronger, which I said when I discovered it, I was like, I opened the files where she wrote what she wanted to write about the baby that was me, and she said, I completely doesn't want to know this baby.

And I was expecting to open a file and reading my mother, and actually I just read a letter of a child, basically.

And after, when you were asking me, you know, like my origins and everything, I think all what I have done was to kind of be recognized by her, that she would be proud.

Today I don't know her.

She maybe knows me, but she doesn't want to meet me.

But again, as you say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

And Wonder Boy...

is a story of someone that has success, that goes through a lot, but still stands up.

Your previous show, the last show that you just did, I thought was really outstanding.

It was very, very beautiful, and somehow different than the things that you've been doing more recently.

And I wonder, what do you think is the direction that you're going in now?

Or do you think that was symptomatic of something that you're experimenting with now?

It seemed that it was such a gentle show.

I think I told you about my Balmain army and all my girls, they had an armor.

Yes, yes.

I think, you know, with time, maybe I've softened a bit.

I get more confidence.

Maybe I'm less into a fight.

Maybe what would people say, Balmain is really loud, maybe now he's less loud.

I don't know.

I think it's 15 years, you know, and in 15 years of career, you change.

You still keep your DNA, but it's just different because I started at 24 and I'm almost 40 now.

So obviously I'm changing, but I still keep my vision, which is confidence, resilience.

The last show was a strong woman.

but maybe a different one than maybe four years ago because I'm a different person as well than four years ago.

And I think that's really important to mention to all of you because whatever you love fashion, but what you love today might be different in 10 years because this is part of humans.

You're changing, but you will always keep your DNA because this is who you are and that's what makes you special and unique.

Is there anything you feel you're proudest of?

in life or in work?

I think if there's one thing that makes me proud, it's to have the chance to be in front of you and telling me my story.

Because for some reason, I think the most beautiful thing that can happen in life is to pass a message through generations.

I'm proud of that.

Because if you ask my young self, at your own age, I'm not sure that this young self would say I would be front of you today.

So what I wish for you, to all of you, is to have that chance to have a message that resonates for the world and to make sure that you, in your own way, can shape the world.

When I was 15 years old, I didn't have an example of a black designer in French luxury industry, right?

And so I was like, can I dream about it?

Can I become that person?

Whatever people like, so not my aesthetic, this is totally fine.

I have so many people that just say, do we like Balmain?

Do we like Balmain?

That's normal, right?

But there is one thing that I'm proud of, is that all my fights that weren't easy when I was in silence, when people didn't want to let me talk.

So I think if there is one thing that I'm proud of, is to spread a message today that a couple of years ago, maybe I couldn't because people didn't want to hear that message.

But this message is not for me, it's for you.

And even not only for you, for the generation after you.

So that's what I'm proud of.

I'm going to throw it open to questions from the audience.

And please do have it be a question, not a very long statement.

Hi, I just want to say thank you so much for coming to speak with us.

You are incredible.

I'm studying production management, so my journey will look a little different than yours.

But you mentioned moving to Italy when you were so young.

Do you think it's necessary to kind of take that jump, step out of our comfort zone, and just take the leap of faith to step into the roles and careers that we want down the line?

Like going all the way to Italy when you were so young.

She gave us an example.

I think everybody is different.

But whatever you do, do it with your instinct.

Because you will never regret what you do with your instinct.

You can regret when you start to listen too much to your brain but not to your heart.

Because your heart is always right.

And when you make a mistake, you're not even disappointed because you say, oh, I did it and I did my maximum.

I don't think my journey should be the same for others because we are all, again, different.

But whatever you feel in your heart, and even if it's something that is different, what people tell you, if you feel this is the right path, just do it.

Don't hesitate.

Because you might have more regrets if you don't do it.

Thank you.

How do you...

What advice would you offer to someone who is discouraged at the slow pace of inclusion and diversity in the fashion world?

You always advocated for more diversity, but it's happening so slowly in the fashion world.

A lot of young people are discouraged that it's not moving faster, or in the U .S.

seems to be going backwards.

That's such a good question.

In all our dreams, everything needs to go fast.

But if there is one thing that I learned with life, it's passions.

You need to be patient.

And I can tell you from a fact, all those fights that we are doing, that you are doing, that I'm doing, that we're all doing here, you need to be patient.

But it's gonna happen because the strength of love is more important than the strength of hate.

I can tell you from a fact.

Love always wins.

Inclusivity will win.

It's really slow and unfortunately sometimes it goes backwards but I can tell you it will move forward because we always win when there is love.

And I can tell you from a fact, keep pushing.

I'm pushing.

We're going to all push together.

And that's the reason why we are in this room, to build a community of people that believe in the same world.

And we're all here to shape this world.

And we're going to go against people that wants to go against us.

Thank you.

Hi, nice to meet you.

My name is Joshua.

What advice would you have for small creative or designers with little connection to reach the level of couture and fashion?

I'm gonna say the thing that everybody's gonna think I'm really cliche, but I'm telling you just be you.

And in the world where we are, and you were mentioning, it's a tough world.

It's a really tough world.

But just be you means being you and being unique.

The moment that you feel that you can express your message that is different from the others and you are different from everyone here, express it.

And I know that it sounds cliche, but it's not an easy thing because the world sometimes pushes you to...

be influenced by things that you see around you know and with social media every morning you wake up and you think oh I should do this I should do that I should do this I should do that but the moment that you find your own soul and who you really are truly are you're gonna show the fact that you're really unique and for couture like you were mentioning low you can mention whatever you want but

the thing is When you're you and you find the right message, spread it.

And there will always be someone to discover you and to love you.

Like we have these pictures of Rihanna.

I'm going to tell you a story, a funny one, really a funny one.

And please know that this is a true story.

How did I know her?

I never met her when I started in 2011.

Balmain was really small.

Like it was not as big as today.

And she saw on my Instagram what I was doing.

She DM'd me and she was like, oh, I would love to meet you in Paris.

She came to my office and I had my clothes in the office.

And if one day she will be in front of you, she will tell you that story because it was really what happened.

I was like, Rihanna texted me, DM'd me.

I was like, this is crazy.

She's like, I love your style.

I want to meet you.

That's how we started our relationship because she saw a style that she liked and she's like, I want to dress in what you do, you know.

I met her and she started to dress barman in the feeding room.

I had a couple of samples and a couple of months after, I texted her.

I'm like, I had a dream.

I would love that you're doing my campaign.

And at that time, I remember she was in Australia for the Diamond Store.

And she's like, let's do it.

So what I'm trying to tell you is that before Barman, of course, I had to fight to be at the Barman, to be Barman creative director because I worked really hard.

When I was at Barman, I had my own style and she came and she's like, I like your style.

So three topics, hard work, you have to work so hard because nothing happened with no working.

Like, let's be clear, you have to work.

Second topic, be yourself and have a message that is yours.

Third, things gonna arrive without that you know.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Shelley and I'm a cosmetics marketing student.

My question is what do you think that you want to represent with the Bamaian beauty that doesn't, that is harder to represent with the fashion?

Is there a Balmain Beauty team there that asked me this question?

It's one of the most exciting chapters at Balmain for me, Balmain Beauty, for two reasons.

One, because I love beauty and I'm the first one to love makeup fragrance for myself.

And the second thing is that it's the best way to express a word when you cannot afford high fashion.

What I want to do with Barman Beauty is to really spread the codes of Barman, which obviously we spoke about inclusivity.

But it's not only about the makeup and for different skin tones.

I think inclusivity is as well about the fragrance because what I love about...

Like I started with fragrance and we start from really high lux.

In a couple of months you will see what's happening.

But it's really like...

Sharing different emotions when you smell a fragrance there is an emotion and to me when you have done The jacket that you wear now the t -shirt the pants the shoes The bag what's gonna be the last touch like your fragrance and the second one is gonna be as the last one will be your makeup and I think this is really interesting for me To to create something that is not always visible like the

fragrance and I loved it.

I went back to school like Four years ago, I went back to school in Paris to learn how to create a fragrance.

So imagine people looking at me like, what are you doing at school?

I'm like, listen, I need to learn.

I know how to create a jacket, but I really don't know how to create a fragrance.

So to talk about fragrance, I need to know the ingredients.

And the students were really kind with me because they really helped me a lot.

But what I love about Bowman Beauty, it's obviously creating the extension of the Bowman world, which is about the emotion, about inclusivity, and making sure that everybody can have access to Bowman just in a different way than they used to.

Hi, Olivier.

I'm Sir Lasseter, advertising and marketing student here at FIT.

I noticed and love your incorporation of ethnicity and culture in your work, and I want to know how you find it kind of cross -pollinating that.

with the house's history, the French style, and kind of any backlash you may get from including ethnicity and heritage in your work?

So first of all, if we know the history of Barman, which is not something easy to know, Pierre Barman was dressing incredible women from Dalida, Brigitte Bardot, the Princess of Thailand, Audrey Hepburn, Josephine Baker.

So he already built his Barman army on his own, you know.

So in the past, he was really into those strong women that were coming from different backgrounds.

I did the same with obviously being the witness of my time.

It wasn't easy, as I told you before.

But to me, this is France.

The mood board that people love to say, France is just Saint -Tropez, with that kind of like cliche, this is not true.

This is not Paris.

I invite you to come to Paris and to France.

You will see there is so much inclusivity in the streets of Paris.

Paris is not just a pair of jeans with a Broughton shirt in Saint -Tropez.

And this is what I was really...

I think that was the most hurtful.

And I think your question is so amazing because I realized that becoming a creative director in Paris, there is that kind of book that you have to follow where you're just like, This is the book that you want me to read, not actually you ask me to rewrite again the same book.